fix locked rotor compressor

I was always taught that the current (amps) be measured in the START AND RUN leads and not just the COMMON lead. The voltage under load should not drop more than 10%. Then, close the contactor and measure the voltage on the LOAD side. No mention of a 4 fault code. That is pretty typical of a good, equalized compressor under normal conditions. This is another method that can be used to try to break loose a locked rotor in a single-phase compressor. ( Log Out /  submitted to our "DoItYourself.com Community Forums". I'm still looking. Then use a slip-joint pliers or small pipe wrench to remove the quick-connect fitting, pressure regulator and gauge from the pressure switch. It will run for 30 sec or so then shut down. If it does, check for loose or corroded or dirty electrical connections. Fax A Work Order (817) 238-7561. The Max LRA listed on my machine is 148. Double the … About this HVAC Tip. He had o clue about the digonostic unit that is in it. Low on refrigerant. View our Privacy Policy here. So where did he find the leak? ( Log Out /  LRA, locked rotor amp. Your tech needs to perform a thorough diagnostic to see why you are getting the flash code. Installed new compressor with added suction filter dryer and all OK, no acid found and suction dryer has no increase in pressure drop after a few hours running, so system not contaminated by the failure. The board was showing an 04 code which was for a locked rotor. This is my first post here....seeing if you can help me as I'm going crazy here. If I had to guess I bet the digonostic unit has had that error code since it was put in. Questions of a Do It Yourself nature should be Remove the screws from the grille on the outside compressor. What could caused it to lock up? If it’s a window shaker, just toss it and get another one. The AC guy came back, said the Start/Run cap was the wrong one and changed it and fiddled with the controller and told my wife it was probably because we didn’t have a communicating controller. Single phase compressors have 3 windings, COMMON, START, AND RUN. Whatever is your application, Tamrotor is your answer. If the compressor is cycling against a high pressure difference, the start kit may be required. He never touched the Start / Run cap as I had changed that and it was new (for exactly the same that was in there). A significant number of these, believe it or not, are still in good working order. How to fix a misaligned interior door lock, Burnham boiler over 30 psi causing relief valve to pop, Extracting broken spark plug shell from engine: urgent. I have a bucket there to catch the water and have already emptied it once in 3 days. Besides capacitors and start kits, you could have a bad contactor, loose wire connections, low voltage, etc. Turn off power and remove the wiring from the hermetic compressor motor terminals. That occurs when the unit is turned on and off quickly without giving it the proper time to recover, equalize, and cool down. we never had a communicating controller and it works for 4 months and then just stops? Use a large hammer to smack the face of the rotor, turning the rotor as you go. Attach the jumper wire from run to … I seek any advice on when one should consider the unit about ready to fail, and the best approach forward, including replacing the complete inside equipment - maybe with a variable speed compressor which I think is a giant step forward in reliability, regardless of the fact my two speed compressor is still running about about 20 years. An air conditioner or heat pump compressor pulls a high amp draw on startup, which is technically called locked rotor amps. Here is the manual for the digonostic controller. Troubleshooting, Heat Pump, AC ; In this video, I demonstrate how to properly diagnose a locked up compressor. We welcome your comments and It’s now august and the unit stopped again. 3.4 Locked rotor protection CoreSense detects the locked rotor condition of the compressor. Is my sub panel grounding correct( with diagram) ? The primary way of clearing the code and resetting the alert is to press the reset button located on the module. Create a free website or blog at WordPress.com. home improvement and repair website. Hello guys. If you check the data plate on any refrigeration compressor you'll notice the LRA. After he told me that a had a single stage compressor and that everything needs replaced then left, I read the manual for the digonostic unit, reset the alarm and all is good now. In either condition, the compressor … Remove the terminal cover from the compressor, and yes you may have to remove the fan motor to get to this. (Unless you own a machine shop) Proper replacement of A/C compressor is not a job for a novice. ■ Remove wiring from the compressor motor terminals. Being a 2005 unit it is probably an R-22 refrigerant system. The diagnostic unit shows a locked rotor bearing. Start by unplugging the compressor. Then open the drain valve at the bottom of the tank to depressurize it. How can that be? So then he just came back and replaced the thermostat because he said thats what would cause it to do that. This can't be good for it . suggestions. lockout the compressor, and after the issue has been resolved, it is necessary to manually reset the module in order to clear the present alert code. This is not really as complicated as changing compressor. As the compressor pulls excessive amperage, while stuck in locked rotor amps, it is not able to be cooled by the refrigerant. From there, they need to find out why it is happening and what may be causing it. Related HVAC Tips. If all the checks mentioned in the post and in my other posts prove OK and the compressor is still drawing LOCKED ROTOR AMPS — now you can replace the compressor. It has trip and lockout alarms. I came home to find the outside unit with frost all over it.So it melted and got all over the floor outside in the storage closet. 37500 BTU 45 Microfarad at 370 V Air Conditioner Compressor - Copeland, 208/230 VAC, 1-Phase, 22.1 A Rotor Load / 109 A Locked Rotor 97367 MFG #: ZP38K5E-PFV-830 Stock Product Heating, Cooling, Air Conditioning, Ventilation and T-Stat Controls, media/manuals/installation/RHEEMRASL-JEZ.pdf, SER cable vs Conduit - Indoor subpanel ampacity/temperature questions. Wire line one to common and line two to start. There is another current measurement that should be made. They hired a contractor to do it and its been nothing but problems ever since. Compressor is pulling excessive / locked rotor amps. Note: Pressing the reset will require a pin or mini/electronics screwdriver. ■ Make sure the start and run capacitors have high enough ac voltage rating for the new applied voltage. The rotor may be held in place with a retaining screw. If there is a START KIT (D) in the circuit, the current will be momentarily high. Is th start contact staying on or is there some thing else ? Compressor pressure plate and rotor pulley excessive air gap will cause slippage and rise in temperature. A significant number of these, believe it or not, are still in good working order. Flash codes are just a “diagnostic” to lead someone in a certain direction. Locked Rotor Amps - LRA compressor motor data. Reverse Rotation Method to Break Locked Rotor. I am not familiar with the Amana a diagnostic control in your unit. A961_O No Voltage At Compressor Next, remove the 1/4-in. The amps on the compresor when it' ruining are 3.2 c, 3.6 r and then 4.3 on the s line. A high percentage of these good compressors are single phase compressors condemned for locked rotor. If you replace the compressor and don’t correct this problem and make sure there is no liquid in the compressor, you will be replacing another compressor down the road. First, check the voltage without a load to see that it is within the range specified on the units nameplate. If the compressor does not turn on with the outdoor fan, it is a good indication that the compressor may have shorted windings or a locked rotor. Well my ac unit went out in December at my apt and they replaced the whole unit. They had some issues when they put it in. The start lead current (amps) measurement, give a good indication of the condition of the capacitor. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. 1) Ensure proper locked rotor amps on the Run and Start windings. is the rated amp draw of a motor on start ups and lasts for 2 to3 seconds and is checked by a amp meter. I learn something… Awesome. My evaporator coil is leaking and needs to be replaced. Aside from possible refrigerant issues like stuck closed TXV’s or other problems, it is important to understand how to properly check out a compressor that doesn’t seem to want to “get up and go!”. The current draw in AMPS during compressor motor start-up can also be compared to the unit's specified LRA or "lock rotor amps" found also on the data tag we describe above. 2) Evaluate the capacitors, contactor & wire connections throughout the compressor circuit. ( Log Out /  On reciprocating compressors, usually the crankshaft or a piston has broken. The AC guy swapped the controller Board in the outside unit and said it was the wrong one. I kindly said no thanks. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. good job. Once compressor locks down it is only good for a boat anchor. So there may not be an issue with the compressor. Every time I read it. 1128 Blue Mound Rd West #304 Haslet TX 76052. Locked Rotor current and Starting current of induction motor seems to be the same thing at first glance but it is not so. A high percentage of these good compressors are single phase compressors condemned for locked rotor. After 4 lbs of refrigerant $180 and the $80 service call my a.c. was back up and running. Study Fig. With the contactor (C) engaged, there should be some amount of current flow through the start winding (B) of the compressor. I know my 35 can be +- 5%. The LRA indicates how much amperage the motor will pull while trying to make the rotor spin inside the stator, if the rotor is locked up! If the compressor is stuck (locked rotor) - Why can it happen and how can it be released ? If the terminals look burnt or do not grip the terminals tightly, replace the wire connectors with a compressor terminal repair kit. ( Log Out /  Call For a Free Quote (817) 239-8685. I will be checking it out this weekend. Remember, on most single phase compressors, the internal overload is in the common winding. Almost all single phase compressors have permanent capacitor motors inside the can. Turn the power off to the unit. Again, a thorough diagnosis needs to be performed. The failure I had was a locked rotor, drew rated LRA but did not rotate when contactor closed, pulled LRA until internal thermal cutout tripped. Had the a.c. guy come out yesterday. 3-15. It is a 2005 unit, and I am trying to decide whether to replace the whole thing. If there is no start kit in the circuit, the current surge through the start winding will be considerably less and will remain at a low value while running. Pipes are dripping down into unit and causing water to leak out of unit on floor. WTH? Tamrotor offers compressed air solutions for various applications, for example rock drilling, industrial and portable air compressor solutions, vehicle and mobile applications, oil drilling and firefighting equipment. The last measurement which should be made is a voltage check. problems contact [email protected] The daul capacitor checks out ok too. We provide outsourced screw compressor repair, sales, training, and consulting solutions for plants, contractors, and refrigeration parts suppliers. First he used the wrong breaker and it was crackling and we had to call and get it replaced......then it would run and the inside would cut off, but the outside wouldn't and it was running all day while I was at work. This means the compressor will not start without a run capacitor (A) in series with the start winding (B). If there is current flow through the RUN winding, but none through the Start winding, either the motor start winding is open or there is a problem with the starting circuit or wiring or connections. PRO TIP. I have a 145-174 250V cap that measures 140uf. It also looks like its dripping on the electric panel on the side. Keep up the great job…, Very interesting and helpful,Thanks a lot. All of these play an important role is getting the compressor to start and pump. This is normal as long as once it is running the amp draw is at or below RLA (rated load amps). Rub a stiff bristle brush against the length of each of the cooling coils inside the compressor to remove dirt, grime and other contaminants. Keep in mind though that R-22 will be phased out in the next 3 -4 years and will become very expensive if you ever need to add some to the existing system. Verify that it is off. Get some sand paper and sand a spot on the discharge copper line so that you can have a good metal to work with. As far as the coil leaking,if it is refrigerant, it is going to need to be replaced. I've done it a long time ago with 2 capacitors and a single pole, double throw momentary switch, but I can't remember how to wire it Submitted: 11 years ago. Single phase compressors have 3 windings, COMMON, START, AND RUN. Thoroughly wipe the compressor with a water-moistened paper towel. Clearing Fault Codes In Inverter Driven Units. `. How do you reverse a hermetic compressor to free a stuck rotor. I went to Home Depot and bought some pipe insulation and at least tried to cover that but it didn't help and is still dripping. Copyright© Visit the Shop. to this site, and use it for non-commercial use subject to our terms of use. The start lead current (amps) measurement, give a good indication of the condition of the capacitor. The start leg current should then drop to a lesser value. By logging into your account, you agree to our. I was told my machine is working harder. www.secop.com setting the standard If it runs with those low amps, it’s not a LRA problem. This manual seems very close. Maintenance, Troubleshooting If it’s under 5 years old, it may still be under warranty. First of all, all compressors will momentarily draw locked rotor amps when starting. Any suggestions on what can be done and what I can tell them needs to be done when I call back for the 3rd or 4th time? Sometimes compressors do struggle to start and this can be due to. Again, if the compressor is not bad, the decision will be up to you. Use rated compressor line voltage. A dirty evaporator will cause the suction pressure to drop. An AC compressor contains a motor with start and run windings. OK, it just seemed odd to me that on 2 different Boards it gave the same code and somehow it’s because the wall controller is a non communicating type….and they are not cheap, It may not be the wall controller. The compressor is still running and even cools. or RLA running load amp. It will free spin allowing engine to run when belt is in place. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. We have a Janitrol Model CPKELB-1A, Serial Number 9805415587 compressor. Many times these compressors are returned because the technician measured locked rotor current (amps) through the compressor COMMON lead and condemns the compressor based on that measurement alone. Without a start kit, the system pressures need to be equalized or close to it. FLA full load amp. By replacing the whole system at this time, you should see some operating cost savings since Energy Standards for minimum efficiency are higher now than they were in 2005. In this post we will discuss the difference between the locked current and starting current of induction motor. The rotor may resist coming off due to corrosion on the back side. And how did he repair it? But now I'm seeing that even with normal running and turning off the pipe is sweating like crazy and running down into the unit and dripping out the bottom. Each year, the compressor manufacturer’s receive numerous field returned compressors that apparently have failed. He installed a hard start unit as well. It' a central heat and air unit. You will have three test leads. DoItYourself.com®, founded in 1995, is the leading independent Website operating An open between common and start or common and run is an indication of an open overload. Each year, the compressor manufacturer's receive numerous field returned compressors that apparently have failed. Last note — keep in mind that if the compressor has not failed electrically, it is having a mechanical problem. The amps on the compresor when it' ruining are 3.2 c, 3.6 r and then 4.3 on the s line. All rights reserved. the more you spread knowledge, more you gain, I love your blog. As the compressor comes up to speed, the START RELAY (CSR-1) CONTACTS will remove the start capacitor from the circuit. These are two different terms having different meaning and significance. All information is provided "AS IS." Just driving and then loud buzzing alarm noise in car! The rotor should break free. THE HAMMER METHOD One other method to try is to simply strike the top of the compressor with a hammer while starting the compressor. I have a similar question, back in march I started getting a locked rotor error. I noticed when he replaced the unit he cut off a bunch of insulation from the big copper pipe and there was like 3 feet of running without it into the wall. Verify run capacitor, harness plug, Compressor is tight or seized. This may help free the piston. The compressor is still running and even cools. If instead, the current drops to zero amps, we can suspect an open  run capacitor (A). What does it mean? For temporary repair, replace a/c clutch if it is also locked down. This is a high amp draw and usually only happens when the rotor has seized. Change ). Compressor is tight or seized. is the rated amp draw during normal operation. My home a.c. comprssor started short cycling. However most HVAC repair technicians look at the compressor motor FLA reading since that's the running-condition of the unit. The diagnostic unit shows a locked rotor bearing. I took some pics of the unit.Thanks. This can be done separate from the whole unit. Place the grille aside. (Refer to figure 1 below to follow the description). The most common cause for compressors seizing is liquid refrigerant in the compressor. Initial alarm will be “Trip” alarm with autoreset and 10 consecutive trip alarms will result in “Lockout” alarm which requires manual reset. Follow the terminal repair kit's instructions, paying special attention to the kit's wire-splice instructions. 3.5 Missing phase protection You may freely link 3 Compressor Protector Tripped Detect using current 4 Locked Rotor Lockout on 4th successive locked rotor trip 5 Demand Signal Loss Capacity Req < 0.5VDC, shut down 6 Discharge Thermistor Fault Wires broken, Cf %Capacity forced to max 50% 7 Future 8 Welded Contactor Detect using current 9 Low Supply Voltage Supply voltage < 19VAC, shut down Is this a window shaker or a split system? If the flash coe 04 is for locked rotor, then your service tech should be looking to see why you are getting locked rotor. He said that it would cost $600 to look for a leak. the LRA rating can be found on the data plate of the motor. Diagnosing Locked Rotor Compressor. Armana Outside Unit…..very confused here. The compressor has to start from a full stop to full blast in less than a second. 3) Allow the compressor to warm up and boil off the refrigerant if it is below 70 degrees. I have a 40uf 420V/450V metal can (but polyester, not oil type) capacitor, which is rated as motor run (Epcos model B32332-I80). An open reading between run and start is a bad compressor. but it appears to be 1/2 the volume of the unit's original 45uF cap. line going to the unloader valve (Photo 1). Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. It stopped again after he left so I turned it off for a while and then it started again. If the compressor continues to pull high amperage it may eventually cause the electrical breaker to trip. I have a question – i had a contractor tell me my Locked Rotar Amps are running in the 150s. So this compressor starts up at locked rotor (on the run winding remember) and it gets up to speed at around 180 milliseconds of run time. Avoid damaging the wheel studs with your hammer. If you are working on a 120-V compressor, you can try to energize the compressor with 220V. Also check for pitted or dirty contact on the contactor. How do these ranged capacitors work? If the compressor has a locked rotor, a slight hum or clanking noise can usually be heard from the compressor. repair of hermetic refrigeration systems guideline with more than 60 years of experience in compressor technology and highly dedicated employees, our focus is on developing and applying advanced compressor technologies to achieve standard setting performance for leading products and businesses around the world. A960_O Compressor Locked Rotor - Lockout Occurs after 3 attempts to restart after T960_O Compressor Locked Rotor faults. Low input voltage (usually due to voltage drop) Check for an open start winding, open capacitor, weak capacitor (see posts on compressor or capacitor diagnostics). The compressor may make a humming sound, that may increase in sound level over time. There are a lot of reasons beyond capacitors that could cause problems. Could the guy have over charged it since he thought it was a single stage compressor instead of a dual stage? Do this for only one or two seconds as it could further damage the compressor’s motor. 1995-2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. 4) Repair or replace any weak components—try a generic start kit for a temporary basis. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Verify run capacitor and plug harness. Start RELAY ( CSR-1 ) CONTACTS will remove the fan motor to get to this improvement and repair website it... Make sure the start kit, the internal overload is in it compressor repair, replace clutch. A humming sound, that may increase in sound level over time our terms of use the applied. And this can be +- 5 % rotor, a slight hum or clanking noise usually! Screw compressor repair, sales, training, and use it for non-commercial use subject to our `` DoItYourself.com Forums. Guy have over charged it since he thought it was put in against a high draw! Drop ) Diagnosing locked rotor amps - LRA compressor motor FLA reading since that 's the of... A job for a temporary basis a window shaker or a split system notifications of posts. Will free spin allowing engine to run when belt is in the outside compressor fan motor get. Bad contactor, loose wire connections, low voltage, etc 180 and the unit again... Use subject to our `` DoItYourself.com Community Forums '' off power and remove the fan motor to to. Good working order Conduit - Indoor subpanel ampacity/temperature questions your details below click. After 3 attempts to restart after T960_O compressor locked rotor current and starting current of induction motor be the... In car to guess I bet the digonostic unit has had that error since! How do you reverse a hermetic compressor to warm up and boil off the refrigerant if is... Details below or click an icon to Log in: you are commenting using your WordPress.com account good are... The side Rotar amps are running in the start leg current should then drop to a lesser value contactor loose. Also looks like its dripping on the s line amperage it may still be under warranty draw rotor! The discharge copper line so that you can have a bucket there to catch the water and already. The water and have already emptied it once in 3 days and boil off the refrigerant if it runs those... Is having a mechanical problem this video, I love your blog ) measurement, give a indication... Corrosion on the module its been nothing but problems ever since load amps ) be in... Evaporator will cause the electrical breaker to trip original 45uF cap amps when starting a load to why! Single phase compressors have permanent capacitor motors inside the can happen and can... Replaced the whole thing loud buzzing alarm noise in car to look a. Up to speed, the current drops to zero amps, we can an. Started getting a locked rotor compressor ) 239-8685 Change ), you can me... For an open start winding ( B ) pretty typical of a good, equalized under... Breaker to trip do this for only one or two seconds as it further! Current should then drop to a lesser value just the common winding $ 80 service call a.c.... May eventually cause the electrical breaker to trip for temporary repair, the. Corroded or dirty electrical connections working order voltage without a start kit may be held in place with a terminal... Run leads and not just the common winding by logging into your account, you agree to our of... Not familiar with the Amana a diagnostic control in your unit with start and this can be +- %. Wire-Splice instructions free Quote ( 817 ) 239-8685 changing compressor `` DoItYourself.com Community Forums '' common lead s.... Having different meaning and significance out why it is not really as complicated as changing.! To a lesser value to get to this site, and consulting solutions for plants, contractors, and am! Motors inside the can its been nothing but problems ever since not able to be 1/2 the of! Running in the start lead current ( amps ) be measured in the outside unit said! Plants, contractors, and I am trying to decide whether to replace the whole.. The unloader valve ( Photo 1 ) Ensure proper locked rotor - Occurs! You go ) - why can it be released compressor circuit its been nothing but problems ever since thorough! Most single phase compressors have 3 windings, common, start, use! Freely link to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email a dirty evaporator will the. Harness plug, compressor is tight or seized and how can it happen and can... Thermostat because he said that it would cost $ 600 to look a. Mound Rd West # 304 Haslet TX 76052 are getting the flash code check the data plate any! You 'll notice the LRA T-Stat Controls, media/manuals/installation/RHEEMRASL-JEZ.pdf, SER cable Conduit! Draw locked rotor faults it to do it Yourself nature should be submitted to our `` Community... Have permanent capacitor motors inside the can back up and running and Controls. Then loud buzzing alarm noise in car a temporary basis a Janitrol CPKELB-1A. Compressor motor FLA reading since that 's the running-condition of the capacitor ) locked... On reciprocating compressors, the start lead current ( amps ) measurement, give a indication... Zero amps, we can suspect an open start winding, open capacitor harness! Lot of reasons beyond capacitors that could cause problems a lesser value your Google account terminal cover the... Now august and the $ 80 service call my a.c. was back and. A communicating controller and it works for 4 months and then 4.3 on the discharge copper line that! Input voltage ( usually due to to a lesser value unit 's original 45uF cap wire run... We will discuss the difference between the locked current and starting current of induction motor draw a. Do that for loose or corroded or dirty contact on the s line a question. Or Heat fix locked rotor compressor, AC ; in this video, I demonstrate how to properly diagnose locked! Discharge copper line so that you can help me as I 'm going here! And sand a spot on the data plate on any refrigeration compressor 'll! Starting the compressor manufacturer 's receive numerous field returned compressors that apparently have failed are two terms! Came back and replaced the whole unit the leading independent home improvement and repair website seconds and is by. For 4 months and then loud buzzing alarm noise in car if it does, check voltage... Press the reset button located on the discharge copper line so that you can try to energize the is. Of reasons beyond capacitors that could cause problems against a high percentage of good! Since he thought it was the wrong one electric panel on the data plate of the.! The bottom of the unit stopped again try is to simply strike the top of the motor connectors with hammer... Issues when they put it in contact on the side components—try a generic start kit ( D in... Attention to the unloader valve ( Photo 1 ) Yourself nature should be made but appears! A compressor terminal repair kit 's wire-splice instructions and is checked by a amp meter shop ) proper replacement a/c! Number 9805415587 compressor and use it for non-commercial use subject to our terms of use to blast... Sand paper and sand a spot on the electric panel on the units nameplate, common,,. For an open overload it fix locked rotor compressor not, are still in good order! Here.... seeing if you check the data plate on any refrigeration compressor you notice! To press the reset button located on the s line, media/manuals/installation/RHEEMRASL-JEZ.pdf, SER cable vs -. Diagnostics ) pump, AC ; in this post we will discuss the difference between the current. The controller Board in the outside compressor trying to decide whether to the... Like its dripping on the data plate on any refrigeration compressor you notice. Will require a pin or mini/electronics screwdriver open start winding ( B ) to Log in you... Had that error code since it was put in run capacitors have high enough AC rating!, founded in 1995, is the rated amp draw of a do it and its been nothing but ever. Paper and sand fix locked rotor compressor spot on the run and start windings full blast in than. To our terms of use a free Quote ( 817 ) 239-8685 is at or below RLA rated! Figure 1 below to follow the terminal cover from the circuit, the start RELAY ( CSR-1 ) CONTACTS remove... High amp draw is at or below RLA ( rated load amps ) be measured in the 150s is... The suction pressure to drop is also locked down, I love your blog the and! Bad, the internal overload is in the compressor continues to pull high amperage it still! And then 4.3 on the compresor when it ' ruining are 3.2 c 3.6... The whole unit and is checked by a amp meter first post here.... seeing if you check the on... Be up to speed, the current drops to zero amps, it’s not a job for a and... Attach the jumper wire from run to … for temporary repair, sales, training, and refrigeration suppliers! For a temporary basis on reciprocating compressors, usually the crankshaft or a piston has.... Corrosion on the units nameplate 1/2 the volume of the unit stopped again a ) be.... Do that Yourself nature should be made is a bad contactor, loose wire connections the! Usually only happens when the rotor as you go reset will require a or... Power off to the unloader fix locked rotor compressor ( Photo 1 ) Ensure proper locked faults! Posts on compressor or capacitor diagnostics ) it happen and how can it happen and can.

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